Introduction
These commentaries are written from my experience and study. They express my opinion about religious doctrine, the narrative that guides the Christian faith, and its impact on spiritual health in the Church. I have concerns about the relevance of the Christian faith within the current social landscape and question why it’s viewed as little more than an inconvenient sub-culture that increasingly struggles with its own spiritual and social identity. Has the Church played a part in this, and what might be changed to impact the current moral catastrophe?
About Me
I grew up with a Christian understanding of life, and the Presbyterian Church was my early religious experience. Some 40 years later I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour. In 2001, I was part of a leadership team that welcomed a new Pastor to the Church. Shortly after, we experienced a series of theological and relational challenges that split the Church in two. This event took three subsequent Pastors, and many years to recover from. I remember the disillusionment left in the wake of the unanswered questions this type of event incurs. I began to realise two things, I came to see that I knew very little about why I believed and that anything I did know, was not my own.
My Latest Commentary
Did the Cross Separate Jesus from God?
Was Jesus separated from God on the cross? Mk15:34 - forsaken: the idea of deserting someone in a set of circumstances that are against them. Much of the commentary around whether Jesus Christ was separated from God centers on the time between his death and resurrection. But can the question be fully understood in this one event alone? A broader analysis might include God's design as the architect of salvation, the purpose in Jesus' life, definitions of death, and the difference between spiritual and physical separation.
Was Jesus separated from God on the cross? Mk15:34 - forsaken: the idea of deserting someone in a set of circumstances that are against them. Commentary on whether Jesus Christ was separated from God centres on the time between his death and resurrection. But can the question be fully understood in this one event alone? A broader analysis might include God's design as the architect of salvation, the purpose in Jesus' life, definitions of death, and the difference between spiritual and physical separation.
Death is used in several ways. The Bible speaks of death metaphorically for spiritual separation from God, about emotional stress, and concerning baptism into Christ (Rom6:3). Mostly it refers to the death of the flesh when there's an irreversible cessation of all the biological functions that sustain life. Lazareth died this type of death and after 4 days, God raised him to life, restoring his body and spirit. This miracle serves as an archetype for the death and resurrection of Christ, whose death was confirmed by the Romans, and witnessed by those who were there and buried him. By any metric his flesh ceased being alive (1Pet3:18). Spiritual death is more nuanced, and nested inside the idea of separation from God, not the death of the flesh. This is where the public debate about whether Jesus separated from God resides. The scriptures don't suggest the spirit can cease to exist, so the term spiritual death is a metaphor that conveys the weight of eternal separation from God.
The doctrine of salvation draws heavily from the Genesis account of the fall which defines sin and details what was lost that needs to be restored. Eating the apple exposed the sin, and being cast out of the garden or separated from God, conveyed the punishment. So it seems that what sin does is more weighty than sin itself. Therefore, sin needs to be atoned, and separation must be reconciled. But are these two components one in the same or two sides of the same coin? The first question might be, what purpose did the cross serve? When Jesus bore our sin, are we saying this was achieved by his experience of pain and suffering on the cross, or are we saying that baring our sin was the death and separation resulting from the cross? I would suggest the physical pain of the cross is eschatologically irrelevant and that Christ’s separation from God is more consistent with the ultimate pain and suffering conveyed in the Genesis account. Adam and Eve were led out of the presence of God due to their disobedience, nothing specifically related to the apple itself because eating was only evidence of a sin they had already committed. Thus they were separated from God and this removal from the garden defines the same separation we assume today, even before we sin. Therefore, when Jesus went to the cross he had to assume our position of separation from God so his resurrection could restore Man’s relationship with God. By this action, the consequences of the Genesis account are redeemed. In this analysis, I'm making the case that our disobedience (idolatry) instigated physical and spiritual separation that only Jesus could redeem. And if Jesus wasn’t separated from God, the resurrection has nothing to restore. Jesus died, and his Spirit was separated from God for 3 days because he took upon himself a position we assume through our disobedience. I’m open to the idea that the physical pain and suffering of the crucifixion, and death of the flesh, might be argued as a peripheral issue, but the central issue is the matter of separation Jesus had to assume so that the resurrection might become “the way, the truth, and the life”. Jesus bridged the divide between spiritual death and spiritual rebirth.
Heb 2:6-9 "But there is a place where someone has testified: "What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him? You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honour and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present, we do not see everything subject to them. But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honour because he suffered death so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone".
The following are two examples of public commentary on the topic:
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association stated, "There is an unfathomable mystery here. Jesus was both God and man united in one divine person. He COULD NOT SUFFER AND DIE in terms of his deity (1Pe 3:18), but he COULD SUFFER THE AGONY OF SEPARATION and DIE, in terms of his humanity. And he did, that we might, through repentance from sin and faith in Him as our Savior and Lord, be forgiven of our sin and reconciled with God".
In response to this someone has stated, "If we say that He could be separated from God even if only in terms of His humanity, this would imply separation not only from God the Father but also from Himself as God since God the Father and God the Son are forever one and are inseparable". The implication is that separation from the Godhead isn’t possible, but the possibility is far more nuanced than the statement suggests.
Both are incomplete statements with both having just enough truth to appear plausible. Both argue the impossibility of God, as the creator of the universe, to separate themselves from each other, yet in a fundamental sense that’s exactly what Jesus did in lowering himself to a position below the Angels when he became a Man. Secondly, placing highly subjective limitations on what God can or can’t do seems problematic. However, the devil's in the details. The Billy Graham Foundation states that only Jesus' human nature could suffer, die, and experience separation, and this begs the question, who then paid the price for sin, Jesus' flesh, or Jesus' Spirit? Are we saying that Jesus' spirit went through the crucifixion, but never suffered? The Bible suggests that both suffered the agony of physical death (Heb2:9), and Jesus' Spirit had to be separated from God's presence if the penalty for sin was to be paid. It seems unreasonable to suggest that under the same circumstances, our Spirit would not feel the agony of pain and suffering. Hebrews 2:14-15 states that the Spirit and the flesh break the power of the Devil. I can understand an interpretation that starts with an impossibility from those who hold no trinitarian view of the Godhead, but ultimately separation can't be understood without it. If God hadn't turned his face from the position of sin that Jesus assumed on our behalf, the entire purpose of the cross would have been convoluted and inconsistent. The second commentator utilizes John1:1-3 to support his critique of the Billy Graham Foundation, but these texts have nothing to do with whether God can or can't, separate from himself.
1Pe 3:18-19 "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made a proclamation to the imprisoned spirits". The word "but" is a primary particle (continuative) which moves "put to death" forward to "made alive" in the Spirit (Jesus' spirit) which left the body, after his flesh had died. In this context "Made alive", is not referring to a return from absolute death, but the end of the flesh and moving on of the Spirit. Jesus had only one spirit, and the definite article "the" refers to his own Spirit that left. No evidence suggests that Jesus had two spirits. His human nature was flesh, and his God nature was spirit. Therefore, Jesus's spirit was separated from God by sin, between his death and resurrection. The definite article in "The Spirit", is not referring to the Holy Spirit, or Jesus' human nature.
The scriptures convey the cross as an act of God's sovereign will, in choosing to become a man and die, by his power and authority. God is the architect of salvation and made himself a little lower than the Angels (Heb2:6-9). By any level of theological supposition, making himself lower, and fully human, required, at the very least, that Jesus separate himself from the power, authority, and status, he held within the Godhead (John 17:5). Jesus demonstrated this, in that no healing or miracle was done in his authority, it was always God working through him by the power of the Holy Spirit. He reinforced this in his statements about God, his prayer life, and his clear submission to the one who had ultimate authority to save him from death (Heb 5:7).
God is omnipotent (all-powerful), and omnipresent (everywhere present), so any decision to lower and separate himself from the Godhead, or from himself on the cross, is a small thing for the creator of the universe. If Jesus divine nature didn't live our experience he couldn't claim to overcome it. When we die our fleshly bodies cease to exist, this is the first death (death of the flesh). Our spirit lives on, and some will rise on the last day, to be with God, through Jesus Christ, and some will rise to be separated from God, this is the second death. This second death is eternal separation from God, and thus hell finds its full meaning in the idea of separation. Jesus had to pay for our sins so that we could overcome the second death. Another example of separation is Mar 13:32 "But about that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”. Here, Jesus makes it clear, that while he was fully man and God, he wasn’t privy to all God knew during his time on earth. This appears to show some degree of separation or at least the ability of the Godhead to separate itself in a manner that’s beyond our ability to understand.
Both aspects of Jesus' nature had to suffer the same experience together, he wasn't part God and part Man. His God nature wasn't excluded from the temptations of the human experience (Heb4:15), otherwise, his sacrifice on the cross would not be that of genuine pain and suffering. Some commentary tends to minimize this by creating the impression that because Jesus was fully God, he couldn't be tempted, and was thus incapable of sin. Consider this: just because he didn't sin doesn't mean he couldn't. What's the point of 40 days of temptation in the desert, if he couldn't be tempted? Indeed, if he couldn't be tempted, his testimony of overcoming sin is meaningless and misrepresents the narrative of an empathetic saviour. Other commentators suggest that Jesus continues to pay for sin like an ongoing agony, that he continues to endure for humanity. The statement is theologically provocative and extremely subtle, but ultimately it undermines the finished statement of the resurrection and, therefore, the entire salvation narrative (Rom6:10).
Salvation pivots on the idea that Jesus had to be God and Man. If Jesus wasn't fully God, he couldn't satisfy the righteous requirements of the Law, or legitimize the resurrection itself. Jesus couldn't be tempted by sin unless he was fully man, and he couldn't resist and overcome sin unless he was fully God. And so we see both Man and God working together in the same person.
In conclusion, we find that all opinions about whether Jesus's divine nature (spirit) can die, or be separated from God the Father, rests on the meaning of the words death and separation. The word death can be used to describe the final destruction of the physical body, or as a metaphor for separation from God. The words death and separation underpin the definition of hell, but they cannot be used to suggest the final destruction or cessation of the human Spirit. In the same way, God's Spirit continued after the destruction of the flesh. For Jesus to become our righteousness he had to die a human death, and his Spirit had to endure separation for our sin. However, the hope of salvation is not found in Jesus' death, but in moving forward in his resurrection.
Archive
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Trevor
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- 16 Dec 2024 The Last Supper - Retrospection or Reunion?
- 16 Sept 2024 The Semantic Drift of Worship
- 11 Aug 2024 Run to Win the Prize
- 12 Jul 2024 Continuous Atonement
- 26 Jun 2024 So You Have a Haunted House
- 7 Feb 2024 The Sermon
- 30 Aug 2023 In the Absence of Persecution
- 24 Jun 2023 Are We Born Sinners?
- 9 May 2023 Did the Cross Separate Jesus from God?
- 7 Feb 2023 Pastors/Teachers, Are They the Same?
- 17 Nov 2022 The Dark Road to Personal Pleasure
- 29 Jul 2022 The Persecuted Apostle
- 4 Dec 2021 Crowd Hypnosis and the Church
- 15 Oct 2021 Victims of Social Engineering
- 7 Aug 2021 White Middle-Class, Middle-Aged Males - The Beatitudes
- 7 May 2021 Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? - Part 3
- 1 Apr 2021 Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? - Part 2
- 27 Aug 2020 Can Christians Lose Their Salvation? - Part 1
- 17 Jul 2020 Are We Totally Determined?
- 17 Mar 2020 Submission and Covering
- 13 Jan 2020 Godlessness
- 18 Apr 2019 The Rise of Socialism
- 4 Mar 2018 Jesus Must Go
- 18 Sept 2017 Death Spiral for the Anglican Church
- 14 Sept 2017 The Image of Evil
- 4 Sept 2017 False Prophets
- 1 Jun 2017 Who Owns the West Bank? - Part 2
- 19 May 2017 Who Owns the West Bank? - Part 1
- 18 Feb 2017 United in the Spirit
- 13 Dec 2016 What Are Our Rights?
- 31 Jul 2016 A Matter of Baptism
- 5 Jul 2016 The Love of Money
- 5 Nov 2015 Signs of the Times
- 19 Jul 2015 Simply Apologetics
- 24 Feb 2015 Religious Systems of Authority
- 1 Feb 2015 Degrees of Sin - Part 2
- 19 Jan 2015 Degrees of Sin - Part 1
- 11 Dec 2014 The Cry for Peace
- 13 Sept 2014 Speaking in Tongues - Part 2
- 7 Sept 2014 Speaking in Tongues - Part 1
- 23 May 2014 Where are the Prophets?
- 4 Nov 2013 The Unsaid Truth
- 2 Sept 2013 Saved by the Church
- 6 Aug 2013 Unified Disagreement
- 25 May 2013 Have the Promises of Wealth Come True?
- 23 Apr 2013 Part 5 - Headship
- 23 Mar 2013 Part 4 - Egalitarian Relationship Not Ruling Authority
- 2 Mar 2013 Part 3 - Wives, Submit to Your Husbands
- 16 Oct 2012 Part 2 - Husbands, Submit to Your Wives
- 20 Aug 2012 Part 1 - Mutual Submission in Relationships
- 6 Aug 2012 Progressive Healing
- 10 Jun 2012 Tithing - Part 2
- 16 May 2012 Tithing - Part 1
- 17 Apr 2012 The Popularity Myth
- 22 Mar 2012 Freedom and Grace
- 23 Aug 2011 What is Biblical Authority?
- 23 Aug 2011 What About Accountability?
- 23 Aug 2011 Conflict is not a Bad Word
- 23 Aug 2011 When the Church Loses It's Way
- 23 Aug 2011 Anointing With Oil